Discussion:
How many treadwear miles do we REALLY get for every 100 UTQG points?
(too old to reply)
_Pnina Gersten_
2007-08-25 03:23:35 UTC
Permalink
How many miles will a typical car actually get on a tire rated 500?

I googled for the Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG) Standards and found
articles which describe how the government runs the Texas test to determine
the tire treadwear rating based on the first 7200 miles
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=48
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/TireWheel/utqg.htm

Basically, 100 = 30,000 miles so 500 = 150,000 miles of tread life based on
extrapolation of the first 7,200 miles of wear in San Angelo, Texas.

What I don't get is why I don't get anywhere near 150,000 miles out of a
single set of properly inflated, balanced, and rotated tires in a car
properly aligned, accelerated, and braked.

So, my question is how many miles do we/you REALLY get for every 100 points
in a UTQG rating? In real life. Really.
Androcles
2007-08-25 10:36:13 UTC
Permalink
"_Pnina Gersten_" <***@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:XgNzi.11429$***@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
: How many miles will a typical car actually get on a tire rated 500?
:
: I googled for the Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG) Standards and found
: articles which describe how the government runs the Texas test to
determine
: the tire treadwear rating based on the first 7200 miles
: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=48
: http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/TireWheel/utqg.htm
:
: Basically, 100 = 30,000 miles so 500 = 150,000 miles of tread life based
on
: extrapolation of the first 7,200 miles of wear in San Angelo, Texas.
:
: What I don't get is why I don't get anywhere near 150,000 miles out of a
: single set of properly inflated, balanced, and rotated tires in a car
: properly aligned, accelerated, and braked.
:
: So, my question is how many miles do we/you REALLY get for every 100
points
: in a UTQG rating? In real life. Really.

It's on the page you quoted.
"The grading fixes 30,000 miles (48,279kms) as 100% Index, and the grading
shall be in multiplies of 20."
"A tire graded 200 would wear twice as well on the government course as a
tire graded 100."

At 30,000 miles you've had 100% wear, the tyre is worn out.

If you want 150,000 miles, buy a tyre that is GRADED 500, but be warned,
it will be expensive. Don't have a severe cut after 100 miles or you lose
the money. In real life. Really.
_Pnina Gersten_
2007-08-25 15:04:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Androcles
: So, my question is how many miles do we/you REALLY get
: for every 100 points in a UTQG rating? In real life. Really.
It's on the page you quoted.
"The grading fixes 30,000 miles (48,279kms) as 100%
Hi Androcles,
Maybe I wasn't clear.

I was asking how many miles we REALLY get - not what some rating says.

I don't know ANYONE who gets 150,000 miles out of a 500 tire. Do you?

I'm gonna take a wild-eyed guess and say we need to subtract more than 66%
from the government numbers, so, that would make a 500 tire not 150,000
miles but 50 thousand miles in actual use on actual roads with actual
passengers and loads and actual driving in actual weather and traffic but
not abuse.

Do other agree that you only get about 1/3 of the government numbers?

Another way to put it is you only get about 10,000 miles for every 100
index in the UTQG tire rating.

With so many millions of USA drivers ... can't anyone else come up with a
number that they've found to be true for them?
Androcles
2007-08-25 15:40:00 UTC
Permalink
"_Pnina Gersten_" <***@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:2yXzi.55$***@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
: On Sat, 25 Aug 2007 10:36:13 GMT, Androcles wrote:
: >: So, my question is how many miles do we/you REALLY get
: >: for every 100 points in a UTQG rating? In real life. Really.
:
: > It's on the page you quoted.
: > "The grading fixes 30,000 miles (48,279kms) as 100%
:
: Hi Androcles,
: Maybe I wasn't clear.
:
: I was asking how many miles we REALLY get - not what some rating says.

You really get 30,000 miles. Really really, yes really. Maybe I wasn't
clear.
You really get 30,000 miles. Really really, yes really.
:
: I don't know ANYONE who gets 150,000 miles out of a 500 tire. Do you?

Yes. Trucks and buses ... not roller skates, though. The bigger the tyre,
the greater the miles.

: I'm gonna take a wild-eyed guess and say we need to subtract more than 66%
: from the government numbers, so, that would make a 500 tire not 150,000
: miles but 50 thousand miles in actual use on actual roads with actual
: passengers and loads and actual driving in actual weather and traffic but
: not abuse.
:
Are you? Well, that's a nice wild-eyed guess, but the gov said you get
30,000 miles and the tyre is worn out, nobody is going to pay the
slightest attention to a wild-eyed bigot too stupid to listen, and neither
am I. Now get out of sci.physics and take your idiotic rants with you.
*plonk*
_Pnina Gersten_
2007-08-25 15:45:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Androcles
You really get 30,000 miles. Really really, yes really.
: I don't know ANYONE who gets 150,000 miles out of a 500 tire. Do you?
Yes. The bigger the tyre, the greater the miles.
I'm shocked that everyone gets the 150,000 miles a 500 UTQG treadwear
rating says you'll get based on an extrapolation of the first 7,200 miles
in ideal constant-speed conditions.

Thank you for your insight.
Jay657
2022-10-30 19:45:03 UTC
Permalink
LOL I never heard of anyone get 150,000 miles on any tire. I grew up in Buffalo, NY with severe winters and now live in Florida with brutally Most tires with a treadwear rating of 500 have a manufacturer’s warranty of 50,000 miles
--
For full context, visit https://www.motorsforum.com/tech/how-many-treadwear-miles-do-we-really-get-for-every-100-utqg-60978-.htm
Nate Nagel
2007-08-25 13:16:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
How many miles will a typical car actually get on a tire rated 500?
I googled for the Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG) Standards and found
articles which describe how the government runs the Texas test to determine
the tire treadwear rating based on the first 7200 miles
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=48
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/TireWheel/utqg.htm
Basically, 100 = 30,000 miles so 500 = 150,000 miles of tread life based on
extrapolation of the first 7,200 miles of wear in San Angelo, Texas.
What I don't get is why I don't get anywhere near 150,000 miles out of a
single set of properly inflated, balanced, and rotated tires in a car
properly aligned, accelerated, and braked.
So, my question is how many miles do we/you REALLY get for every 100 points
in a UTQG rating? In real life. Really.
I'd put more stock in the treadwear warranty of the tire than in the
UTQG rating. It's likely that you will get slightly more mileage than
the warranty if you drive a light car and take care of your tires
(regular rotations and pressure checks) however probably not much. The
UTQG rating is simply designed to provide a method for you to *compare*
tread life across different brands, etc. by providing a consistent tread
life testing methodology, e.g. a 200 UTQG tread life rated tire may not
reach 60K miles in real world conditions, but a 300 UTQG tire WILL last
probably pretty close to 1.5x as long under the same conditions.

Keep in mind that a) if you're using all-season tires and live in an
area with snow, you will end up replacing the tires before they are
completely worn out because you don't want to be driving in snow on
almost-worn-out all seasons (which reminds me, I predict a fight between
Yours Truly and the fleet people in a couple months) and b) tires with
high tread life often have low traction due to the hard rubber compound.
There are some high end tires that are the exception to this rule
(e.g. Michelin) but they are pricey.

I remember years ago, high performance tires used to have underrated
UTQG tread life ratings because buyers had a hard association in their
minds between long tread life and poor traction. You don't see that so
much anymore, but ISTR seeing ratings as low as 50 on DOT legal race tires.

nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
_Pnina Gersten_
2007-08-25 15:21:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nate Nagel
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
So, my question is how many miles do we/you REALLY get for every 100 points
in a UTQG rating? In real life. Really.
I'd put more stock in the treadwear warranty of the tire than in the
UTQG rating.
Hi Nate Nagel,

Being scientifically inclined, I prefer measurements to marketing.

IMHO, the tire manufacturer's "warranty" is a blatant marketing gimmick.
I'm always amazed at some of my friends who would rather quote a warranty
rather than a test result. IMHO, the "warranty" gibberish has absolutely no
bearing on anything other than pure marketing needs. Sure, you'll say they
don't warrant what they can't justify and I'll respond with sure, they need
to make money, but, how many times have YOU actually redeemed a
battery/brakepad/tire warranty in real life? I never do because
a) The warranty is prorated
b) You have to buy THEIR tire again from THEIR distributor and stock
c) You have to pay THEIR (inflated) price at that time
d) The warranty is prorated but you often end up paying MORE for the second
tire (due to conditions above) than the first tire! Ha. Warranty.

It's not you per se that makes me write this as I've taught many a friend
about testing standards - but anyone who quotes a marketing tool as science
has to get this lecture from me.

Having said that, does anyone of the millions of drivers out there actually
compare their mileage received with the government UTQG test results?
ray
2007-08-27 07:34:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
Having said that, does anyone of the millions of drivers out there actually
compare their mileage received with the government UTQG test results?
I don't. Why? There's more to a tire than just it's expected mileage
per set. I care more about traction (dry and snow) than whether the
tire makes it 50,000 miles or 500,000 miles. I've found tires have a
useful lifespan of <10 years, and I usually do about a max of 10,000
miles per year per car because I own multiple cars and thus the
sidewalls start to weathercrack or I don't even own the car anymore
instead of going through multiple sets of tires.

FWIW, my buddy way back when was doing lots of driving for work and his
Goodyear Inifitreads must have done 80-90k miles and still weren't worn
out, but that was all easy highway driving.

Ray
z
2007-08-27 18:11:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
Post by Nate Nagel
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
So, my question is how many miles do we/you REALLY get for every 100 points
in a UTQG rating? In real life. Really.
I'd put more stock in the treadwear warranty of the tire than in the
UTQG rating.
Hi Nate Nagel,
Being scientifically inclined, I prefer measurements to marketing.
IMHO, the tire manufacturer's "warranty" is a blatant marketing gimmick.
I'm always amazed at some of my friends who would rather quote a warranty
rather than a test result. IMHO, the "warranty" gibberish has absolutely no
bearing on anything other than pure marketing needs. Sure, you'll say they
don't warrant what they can't justify and I'll respond with sure, they need
to make money, but, how many times have YOU actually redeemed a
battery/brakepad/tire warranty in real life? I never do because
a) The warranty is prorated
b) You have to buy THEIR tire again from THEIR distributor and stock
c) You have to pay THEIR (inflated) price at that time
d) The warranty is prorated but you often end up paying MORE for the second
tire (due to conditions above) than the first tire! Ha. Warranty.
It's not you per se that makes me write this as I've taught many a friend
about testing standards - but anyone who quotes a marketing tool as science
has to get this lecture from me.
Having said that, does anyone of the millions of drivers out there actually
compare their mileage received with the government UTQG test results?
I found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treadwear_rating to be eye
opening and depressing.
ray
2007-08-27 07:30:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nate Nagel
I remember years ago, high performance tires used to have underrated
UTQG tread life ratings because buyers had a hard association in their
minds between long tread life and poor traction. You don't see that so
much anymore, but ISTR seeing ratings as low as 50 on DOT legal race tires.
nate
2001 Trans Am, driven extremely hard.

Stock Tires were Goodyear Eagle F1 GSes, they made 23,000 miles.
(IIRC the rating was 300)
Replacement Tires are Kumho Ecsta MXes, with a 220 rating, they've made
it 12,000 miles and aren't totally bald yet.

FWIW, my BF Goodrich Drag radials have a treadwear rating of 0.
:)

The Canadian Tire Predator GTS's on my wife's Beretta made it 45k miles
before they started to self destruct, there was still plenty of tread
left, but the sidewalls started to crack and there was internal belt
separation. Unfortunately I don't know the treadwear #, but the
treadwear warranty was 50k miles.

Ray
Mike Romain
2007-08-25 15:34:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
How many miles will a typical car actually get on a tire rated 500?
I googled for the Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG) Standards and found
articles which describe how the government runs the Texas test to determine
the tire treadwear rating based on the first 7200 miles
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=48
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/TireWheel/utqg.htm
Basically, 100 = 30,000 miles so 500 = 150,000 miles of tread life based on
extrapolation of the first 7,200 miles of wear in San Angelo, Texas.
What I don't get is why I don't get anywhere near 150,000 miles out of a
single set of properly inflated, balanced, and rotated tires in a car
properly aligned, accelerated, and braked.
So, my question is how many miles do we/you REALLY get for every 100 points
in a UTQG rating? In real life. Really.
Where in heck do they get 'those' numbers?

They 'sure' aren't on the NHTSA page you linked to.

To Quote:

A grade of 100 would indicate that the tire tread would last as long as
the test tire, 200 would indicate the tread would last twice as long,
300 would indicate three times as long, etc.

End Quote

It says absolutely zip about how many 'miles' the tire can last.

Your second link is a web page that appears to be totally wrong. Their
'example' is worded correct, but their 'test' procedure is bullshit.

Here is the 'real' NHSTA site:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/UTQG/
Which resolves to:

http://www.safercar.gov/Tires/pages/TireRatTreadwear.htm

It also states the same as I quoted with 'no' mention of 'miles' in
relation to that test, 'only' that the number 100 is assigned to the
tread wear on the control tire.

Reality and the tire makers state that the lower rubber is even harder
than the stuff on the outside so they wear slower as they age.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)


Reality and the tire makers state that the lower rubber is even harder
than the stuff on the outside so they wear slower as they age.
_Pnina Gersten_
2007-08-25 15:49:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Romain
Where in heck do they get 'those' numbers?
They 'sure' aren't on the NHTSA page you linked to.
Hi Mike Romain,
Thanks for checking on my figures. I appreciate that as that's what science
is all about. In double-checking, both web pages showed the test procedure
but only the second web page showed the 30,000 miles treadwear for every
100 in the UTQG index.

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/TireWheel/utqg.htm
"The treadwear grade is a comparative rating based on the wear rate of the
tire when tested under controlled conditions on a specified government test
course *. The grading fixes 30,000 miles (48,279kms) as 100% Index, and the
grading shall be in multiplies of 20.

*The test course consists of three loops of a total of 400 miles (644kms)
in the geographical vicinity of Goodfellow Air Force Base (AFB), San
Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.

(TEST PROCEDURE)
* Run a car with test tires mounted till 6,400 miles (10,300kms) pass.
(The tire is tested in convoy with a "base" tire so as to eliminate the
variable of temperature and road surface.
* Measure the tread depth after each 800 miles (1287kms) run.
* Then the projected worn out tire life is calculated. Fixing that 30,000
miles (48,279kms) as 100% Index."
Mike Romain
2007-08-25 16:01:46 UTC
Permalink
Anyone can write any bullshit on any webpage, that still makes it
bullshit. They show 'A' bullshit test, totally fictional, not 'the test
procedure'.

The 'real' test procedure done for the NHTSA makes 'no' mileage claims,
only 'comparison' claims.

The webpage is totally 'wrong'.

Therefore your surmise is wrong.

Mike
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
Post by Mike Romain
Where in heck do they get 'those' numbers?
They 'sure' aren't on the NHTSA page you linked to.
Hi Mike Romain,
Thanks for checking on my figures. I appreciate that as that's what science
is all about. In double-checking, both web pages showed the test procedure
but only the second web page showed the 30,000 miles treadwear for every
100 in the UTQG index.
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/TireWheel/utqg.htm
"The treadwear grade is a comparative rating based on the wear rate of the
tire when tested under controlled conditions on a specified government test
course *. The grading fixes 30,000 miles (48,279kms) as 100% Index, and the
grading shall be in multiplies of 20.
*The test course consists of three loops of a total of 400 miles (644kms)
in the geographical vicinity of Goodfellow Air Force Base (AFB), San
Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
(TEST PROCEDURE)
* Run a car with test tires mounted till 6,400 miles (10,300kms) pass.
(The tire is tested in convoy with a "base" tire so as to eliminate the
variable of temperature and road surface.
* Measure the tread depth after each 800 miles (1287kms) run.
* Then the projected worn out tire life is calculated. Fixing that 30,000
miles (48,279kms) as 100% Index."
_Pnina Gersten_
2007-08-25 20:09:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Romain
The webpage is totally 'wrong'.
Therefore your surmise is wrong.
Hi Mike Romain,
I've known about the 30,000 miles ever since they put the treadwear numbers
in use. I just pointed to a web page for others to reference.
I can point to HUNDREDS of web pages which have that 30,000 base number and
to none that have any other number other than 30,000 miles.

Witness ...
http://www.lexusclub.co.uk/onallfours.htm
which says
"The UTQG is very useful, don't listen to those who say 'it means nothing'
they are, in almost every way, incorrect. The first number relates to how
hard wearing the Tyre is, 100 means 30,000 miles of normal use by a 100 HP,
22 Cwt motorcar".

Or witness ...
http://www.arc-light.co.uk/tyreandwheel.html
which says
"The treadlife index measures the relative treadlife of the tire compared
to a "government reference". An index of 100 is equivalent to an estimated
treadlife of 30,000 miles of highway driving."

Or witness ...
http://www.icarumba.com/cobrands/contentmodules/resourcecenter/articles/icar_resourcecenter_articles_sidewall.asp
which says
"The base treadwear rating for passenger tires is 100, which translates
into an expected tread life of 30,000 miles."

Or witness ...
http://www.procarcare.com/icarumba/resourcecenter/encyclopedia/icar_resourcecenter_encyclopedia_tires2.asp
which says
"The treadwear grade is expressed by a number in multiples of 10-a higher
number indicating a comparatively longer tread life. The number 100 is
assigned as the standard of 30,000 mile"

Or witness ...
http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/Tires.shtml
which says
"A rating of 100 is roughly defined as a tire lasting 30,000 miles on the
designated test course"

Or witness ...
http://www.aicautosite.com/garage/subsys/batirera.asp
which says
"Relative tread wear is indicated by a number. The control number is 100,
indicating approximately 30,000 miles under normal test driving
conditions."

(I could go on).
If you think this number is wrong, can you find a SINGLE reference that
shows a DIFFERENT base number of miles for the 100 index of the UTQG
standard?

Or is your surmiser wrong?
B.B.
2007-08-25 22:28:02 UTC
Permalink
In article <X%%zi.107$***@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>,
_Pnina Gersten_ <***@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

[...]
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
(I could go on).
If you think this number is wrong, can you find a SINGLE reference that
shows a DIFFERENT base number of miles for the 100 index of the UTQG
standard?
Or is your surmiser wrong?
It seems that the 30k number does not necessarily correspond to
actual miles for tire lifetime. It's only the figure used in this test
to set a standard for comparison. One reference even states "control
number."
For example, a tire in that test rig that has an expected lifetime of
30k gets, say, 25k actual use miles in real world conditions on a car.
But put that same tire on a heavier car, or a car with front wheel drive
instead of rear wheel drive, or the other way around, and the lifetime
changes.
So while on one vehicle we could come up with 30k UTQG == 25k actual,
on another vehicle it may work out to 20k actual, or 28k actual, or 32k
actual.
Then there are the other variables of driving style, climate, load,
if the tire is used in a tandem arrangement, city driving vs highway
driving, towing, potholes, etc. Too many variables for a simple ratio
to take into account.
UTQG seems to be a comparative measurement than an actual lifetime
estimate. Where it would be useful is you have a set of 100-rated tires
that you got 20k out of and want to get a ballpark estimate of how long
comparable 200-rated tires will last. But you'd have to find your own
baseline on your own vehicle first.
--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
Mike Romain
2007-08-26 03:34:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
Post by Mike Romain
The webpage is totally 'wrong'.
Therefore your surmise is wrong.
Hi Mike Romain,
I've known about the 30,000 miles ever since they put the treadwear numbers
in use. I just pointed to a web page for others to reference.
I can point to HUNDREDS of web pages which have that 30,000 base number and
to none that have any other number other than 30,000 miles.
There is only 'one' site that has the correct information and that site
is the NHTSA or National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

This is the Administration that 'designed' the UTQG test and they make
no mileage claims, quite the opposite.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/TireSafety/ridesonit/brochure.html

If you look at the tire sellers, none of them claim miles related to the
UTQG either.

Here is a link to the NHTSA tire testing Laboratory procedure PDF file:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/DOT/NHTSA/Vehicle%20Safety/Test%20Procedures/Associated%20Files/TP-139-03.pdf

'ALL' the rest are repeating erroneous information or guesses.

As to how many miles are tested for....

To quote the Laboratory procedure PDF file document on page 43 for the
tire endurance test:

The tire shall be run without interruptions at these intervals:
4-hour test: 85% as a percentage of tire maximum load rating
6-hour test: 90% as a percentage of tire maximum load rating
24-hour test: 100% as a percentage of tire maximum load rating

• Tire speed
o PC and LT Tire without a snowflake symbol on the sidewall, speed
in kilometers per hour: 120 kph+0 to –3.2 kph (75 miles/hour
+0 to – 2 mph)
o For PC and LT tires with the snowflake symbol on the sidewall,
speed in kilometers per hour: 110 kph+0 to –3.2 kph (68
miles/hour +0 to –2 mph)

End Quote

Or stage 1 is 480 km or 300 miles

Stage 2 is 720 km or 450 miles

Stage 3 is 2880 km or 1800 miles

For a Total of 4080 km or 2550 miles

They do a 90 minute at 120 kph or 75 mph low pressure run.

One for high speed,

30 minutes at 140 kph,
30 minutes at 150 kph, and,
30 minutes at 160 kph.

And a 3 hour warm up at 80 kph in there somewhere...

That's a far cry from 30,000 miles....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
MG
2007-08-26 17:38:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
Post by Mike Romain
The webpage is totally 'wrong'.
Therefore your surmise is wrong.
Hi Mike Romain,
I've known about the 30,000 miles ever since they put the treadwear numbers
in use. I just pointed to a web page for others to reference.
I can point to HUNDREDS of web pages which have that 30,000 base number and
to none that have any other number other than 30,000 miles.
Witness ...
http://www.lexusclub.co.uk/onallfours.htm
which says
"The UTQG is very useful, don't listen to those who say 'it means nothing'
they are, in almost every way, incorrect. The first number relates to how
hard wearing the Tyre is, 100 means 30,000 miles of normal use by a 100 HP,
22 Cwt motorcar".
Or witness ...
http://www.arc-light.co.uk/tyreandwheel.html
which says
"The treadlife index measures the relative treadlife of the tire compared
to a "government reference". An index of 100 is equivalent to an estimated
treadlife of 30,000 miles of highway driving."
Or witness ...
http://www.icarumba.com/cobrands/contentmodules/resourcecenter/articles/icar_resourcecenter_articles_sidewall.asp
which says
"The base treadwear rating for passenger tires is 100, which translates
into an expected tread life of 30,000 miles."
Or witness ...
http://www.procarcare.com/icarumba/resourcecenter/encyclopedia/icar_resourcecenter_encyclopedia_tires2.asp
which says
"The treadwear grade is expressed by a number in multiples of 10-a higher
number indicating a comparatively longer tread life. The number 100 is
assigned as the standard of 30,000 mile"
Or witness ...
http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/Tires.shtml
which says
"A rating of 100 is roughly defined as a tire lasting 30,000 miles on the
designated test course"
Or witness ...
http://www.aicautosite.com/garage/subsys/batirera.asp
which says
"Relative tread wear is indicated by a number. The control number is 100,
indicating approximately 30,000 miles under normal test driving
conditions."
(I could go on).
If you think this number is wrong, can you find a SINGLE reference that
shows a DIFFERENT base number of miles for the 100 index of the UTQG
standard?
Or is your surmiser wrong?
If you are truly an admirer of scientific method, how do you expect to get a
definitive answer with as many variables as there are among a small group of
newsgroup posters? There are so many variables in the operation of any
given motor vehicle that it would seem impossible. The treadware ratings
are an attempt to standardize usage, and thus eliminate variables, as much
as possible. The ratings scale was developed so that one tire could be
compared to another, not to give an absolute mileage figure.

There is no meaningful answer to your question. That's why you can't get
one. If you find answers in the GPS group, it's because (presumably) GPS
information is a bit more specific than tire wear.

There's a reason why so many NG posts include the phrase "Your mileage may
vary (YMMV)." In this case, it couldn't be more appropriate.

mg
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
ray
2007-08-27 07:38:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
(TEST PROCEDURE)
* Run a car with test tires mounted till 6,400 miles (10,300kms) pass.
(The tire is tested in convoy with a "base" tire so as to eliminate the
variable of temperature and road surface.
* Measure the tread depth after each 800 miles (1287kms) run.
* Then the projected worn out tire life is calculated. Fixing that 30,000
miles (48,279kms) as 100% Index."
I can see this giving really screwy numbers for snow tires that use a
soft "outer" tread, and a harder inner tread.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Blizzak+WS-50
interestingly, there's no UTQG for these...

Ray
Jim Yanik
2007-08-25 18:59:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Romain
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
How many miles will a typical car actually get on a tire rated 500?
I googled for the Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG) Standards and
found articles which describe how the government runs the Texas test
to determine the tire treadwear rating based on the first 7200 miles
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=48
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/TireWheel/utqg.htm
Basically, 100 = 30,000 miles so 500 = 150,000 miles of tread life
based on extrapolation of the first 7,200 miles of wear in San
Angelo, Texas.
What I don't get is why I don't get anywhere near 150,000 miles out
of a single set of properly inflated, balanced, and rotated tires in
a car properly aligned, accelerated, and braked.
So, my question is how many miles do we/you REALLY get for every 100
points in a UTQG rating? In real life. Really.
Where in heck do they get 'those' numbers?
They 'sure' aren't on the NHTSA page you linked to.
A grade of 100 would indicate that the tire tread would last as long
as the test tire, 200 would indicate the tread would last twice as
long, 300 would indicate three times as long, etc.
End Quote
It says absolutely zip about how many 'miles' the tire can last.
Your second link is a web page that appears to be totally wrong.
Their 'example' is worded correct, but their 'test' procedure is
bullshit.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/UTQG/
http://www.safercar.gov/Tires/pages/TireRatTreadwear.htm
It also states the same as I quoted with 'no' mention of 'miles' in
relation to that test, 'only' that the number 100 is assigned to the
tread wear on the control tire.
Reality and the tire makers state that the lower rubber is even harder
than the stuff on the outside so they wear slower as they age.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Reality and the tire makers state that the lower rubber is even harder
than the stuff on the outside so they wear slower as they age.
I suspect the wide variation in the abrasiveness of actual road paving
could make a significant difference in tread wear,compared to lab tests.
Then there are factors like turns(cornering);how many you make and how fast
you do them. Lane changes also wear more than straight driving.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
_Pnina Gersten_
2007-08-25 19:59:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Yanik
I suspect the wide variation in the abrasiveness of actual road paving
could make a significant difference in tread wear
Hi Jim Yanik,
Yes. That is the whole point. There is a scientific method (which is the
100 = 30,000 miles extrapolated from 7,200 miles of test driving) ... and
there is the practical method.

I'm beginning to understand that this isn't the newsgroup for anyone who
actually understands tires based on the responses I received so far. That's
ok. It's my bad for going to the wrong group to ask a basic question
regarding how long tires last and what their treadwear numbers were.

But, if this is the wrong group for automotive tire questions, ... may I
ask ...

Which newsgroup best understands automobile tires in ordinary use?
nonsense
2007-08-25 20:09:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
Post by Jim Yanik
I suspect the wide variation in the abrasiveness of actual road paving
could make a significant difference in tread wear
Hi Jim Yanik,
Yes. That is the whole point. There is a scientific method (which is the
100 = 30,000 miles extrapolated from 7,200 miles of test driving) ... and
there is the practical method.
I'm beginning to understand that this isn't the newsgroup for anyone who
actually understands tires based on the responses I received so far. That's
ok. It's my bad for going to the wrong group to ask a basic question
regarding how long tires last and what their treadwear numbers were.
But, if this is the wrong group for automotive tire questions, ... may I
ask ...
Which newsgroup best understands automobile tires in ordinary use?
It is a very rare occasion when someone can get a
valid answer to any question in a usenet newsgroup.

On the other hand, I doubt that even the tire industry
actually "understands" tires in ordinary use. For
example, why does Goodyear guarantee their tires (for
an extra fee) only for the first 25% of tread wear?

The implications are astounding.
_Pnina Gersten_
2007-08-25 20:16:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by nonsense
It is a very rare occasion when someone can get a
valid answer to any question in a usenet newsgroup.
Hi nonsense,

I normally get absolutely WONDERFUL GPS answers on the
sci.geo.satellite-nav newsgroup so I expected more of this newsgroup. But
again, it's not anyone's fault if I asked a question beyond the newsgroup;
it's my fault.

I'm still trying to find a newsgroup that knows both the mileage they get
on their automotive tires in actual use and what the treadwear number is
stamped on the tire itself. I searched and searched but this was the best I
could find. Sorry.
Post by nonsense
why does Goodyear guarantee their tires (for
an extra fee) only for the first 25% of tread wear?
I do not know but I strongly suspect it's all in their marketing. I am a
scientist in a highly marketed organization and I'm constantly astounded at
the wierd stuff the marketeers come up with and that the public buys.

For example, we make a set of software and then they asked us to make a
low-cost set so we added loops galore to the original software and just
bypassed them in the higher-end software. These marketeers guarantee a 20%
speedup if the customer uses the high-end software or their money back! Ha!

That's why I don't trust any of the marketing and stick to tested
standards.

Is there ANYONE who knows both the treadwear number stamped on your tire
and how long it actually lasted?
nonsense
2007-08-25 20:50:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
Post by nonsense
It is a very rare occasion when someone can get a
valid answer to any question in a usenet newsgroup.
Hi nonsense,
I normally get absolutely WONDERFUL GPS answers on the
sci.geo.satellite-nav newsgroup so I expected more of this newsgroup.
Glad to hear that's working for you.
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
But
again, it's not anyone's fault if I asked a question beyond the newsgroup;
it's my fault.
Hardly a matter for sci.physics though.
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
I'm still trying to find a newsgroup that knows both the mileage they get
on their automotive tires in actual use and what the treadwear number is
stamped on the tire itself. I searched and searched but this was the best I
could find. Sorry.
Best of luck. Did you try corresponding with the
manufacturer(s)?
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
Post by nonsense
why does Goodyear guarantee their tires (for
an extra fee) only for the first 25% of tread wear?
I do not know but I strongly suspect it's all in their marketing. I am a
scientist in a highly marketed organization and I'm constantly astounded at
the wierd stuff the marketeers come up with and that the public buys.
I guess you've missed the operative word in my question, that
word was "only". And you also missed the "extra fee" so it
isn't a marketing issue at all.
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
For example, we make a set of software and then they asked us to make a
low-cost set so we added loops galore to the original software and just
bypassed them in the higher-end software. These marketeers guarantee a 20%
speedup if the customer uses the high-end software or their money back! Ha!
So the actual "we can make a handsome profit" price
for your product is the lower price. On my worse day
I would never continue working for a firm that does
stuff like that.
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
That's why I don't trust any of the marketing and stick to tested
standards.
Is there ANYONE who knows both the treadwear number stamped on your tire
and how long it actually lasted?
I don't think you'll get a satisfying answer to this
question. I took the second set of tires off my car
not that long ago. They were supposed to have a
50K life (per sales blurbs) and they had lots of
mileage remaining in the tread. But I got real
unhappy with the noise they were making that came
about because of apparent hardening of the rubber.

I gave them away to some really poor folks who were
thrilled to have tires with good tread regardless
of the noise. Their free tires improved their
quality of ride, as did my new replacements using
a better grade of tire.

Those 50K tires with 30 K on them that I gave away
were approaching 5 years in service.

So the reason to replace tires isn't always a tread
wear issue.
Nate Nagel
2007-08-25 21:51:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
Post by nonsense
It is a very rare occasion when someone can get a
valid answer to any question in a usenet newsgroup.
Hi nonsense,
I normally get absolutely WONDERFUL GPS answers on the
sci.geo.satellite-nav newsgroup so I expected more of this newsgroup. But
again, it's not anyone's fault if I asked a question beyond the newsgroup;
it's my fault.
I'm still trying to find a newsgroup that knows both the mileage they get
on their automotive tires in actual use and what the treadwear number is
stamped on the tire itself. I searched and searched but this was the best I
could find. Sorry.
Post by nonsense
why does Goodyear guarantee their tires (for
an extra fee) only for the first 25% of tread wear?
I do not know but I strongly suspect it's all in their marketing. I am a
scientist in a highly marketed organization and I'm constantly astounded at
the wierd stuff the marketeers come up with and that the public buys.
For example, we make a set of software and then they asked us to make a
low-cost set so we added loops galore to the original software and just
bypassed them in the higher-end software. These marketeers guarantee a 20%
speedup if the customer uses the high-end software or their money back! Ha!
That's why I don't trust any of the marketing and stick to tested
standards.
Is there ANYONE who knows both the treadwear number stamped on your tire
and how long it actually lasted?
Did you ever think that perhaps there's simply no good answer to your
question?

For instance, letting us know what kind of car you drive and where you
live might help. Both have a significant impact on tread life.

nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
_Pnina Gersten_
2007-08-25 23:10:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nate Nagel
For instance, letting us know what kind of car you drive and where you
live might help. Both have a significant impact on tread life.
I live near Pleasanton California where it almost never rains nor snows.
Well, it rains a bit in the winter but never in the fall, summer, or
spring. It's pretty flat so there are no hills, nor do I drive on dirt
roads. My car is a Toyota Camry, year 2000 and I've the stock size tires
and wheels. I drive like a little old lady mostly around town and not much
on the highway. When I drive on the highway, I stay below about 85 as my
limit. Around town I try to avoid sudden starts and stops and I never spin
my wheels nor do I leave skid marks on the road. Still, I don't get
anywhere near the 30,000 miles per index 100 for my tires, having been
through two full sets of tires in the 85,0000 miles I've driven since I
bought the car new. I buy my tires where I get free balancing and rotations
and about twice a year I take them in for the tests. I had the car aligned
twice since I bought it and the shocks/struts have been replaced about a
year ago. I keep a tire gage in my glove box so when I fill the tires about
every few months, I check to keep them at the right specification that I
read off the door panel. I get about a flat a year (on average it seems)
and they have to repair the tire from the inside (sometimes it's too close
to the edge and they have to throw the tire away).

I'm not sure what else matters. What else would you need to know?
sdlomi2
2007-08-26 03:16:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
Post by Nate Nagel
For instance, letting us know what kind of car you drive and where you
live might help. Both have a significant impact on tread life.
I live near Pleasanton California where it almost never rains nor snows.
Well, it rains a bit in the winter but never in the fall, summer, or
spring. It's pretty flat so there are no hills, nor do I drive on dirt
roads. My car is a Toyota Camry, year 2000 and I've the stock size tires
and wheels. I drive like a little old lady mostly around town and not much
on the highway. When I drive on the highway, I stay below about 85 as my
limit. Around town I try to avoid sudden starts and stops and I never spin
my wheels nor do I leave skid marks on the road. Still, I don't get
anywhere near the 30,000 miles per index 100 for my tires, having been
through two full sets of tires in the 85,0000 miles I've driven since I
bought the car new. I buy my tires where I get free balancing and rotations
and about twice a year I take them in for the tests. I had the car aligned
twice since I bought it and the shocks/struts have been replaced about a
year ago. I keep a tire gage in my glove box so when I fill the tires about
every few months, I check to keep them at the right specification that I
read off the door panel. I get about a flat a year (on average it seems)
and they have to repair the tire from the inside (sometimes it's too close
to the edge and they have to throw the tire away).
I'm not sure what else matters. What else would you need to know?
_Prina, I find this quite interesting, and I've been lazily waiting for
a valid answer to your question--it's been on my mind, on a back burner I
must admit, but has nonetheless bothered me over the years. The most
explanations I've received from tire dealers is the 'relativity
excuse'--i.e., a 200 theoretically goes 2 times the miles as a 100-rated
tire. My dad sold tires and I sold cars. At one time I would install the
el cheapo tires, like those with a 220 twr(treadwear rating), on cars I was
sending to auction. After all, if they weren't Michelins, new tires were
just that--new tires (We only knew of 1 'quality' tire in my area.). But
after I saw 2 customers wearing those same tires(not sold by me): (1) have a
blowout while sitting at a red light in hot weather; and (2) another have a
blowout riding in town at about 35 mph; both these tires blew out on the
sidewall, of all places. I quit even using them on the auction-units!
My customers and my family and I never have gotten the mileage wear
advertised by that belief in 30k per 100 rating. One actually did get 60k
on a set of 60-k Michelins on a '95 Riviera, but I refused to ride with him
for the last 10-15k miles. Like you, I feel there must be some percentage
we can use to help determine the actual miles to "really" expect. Even
twr's will differ among mfgs--I don't wish to beat them down, but "Energy
Men" stores will put a 500 twr on a tire that won't give but about 60-70%
the miles that a 500 Michelin will give.
My guestimate therefore would have to be for a given mfg. Michelins,
for instance, I'd guess like you: using 500 to indicate 5 times the 30k, or
150,000 miles, I'd estimate about 1/2 the theoretical 150k, or 75k at
best--in our state, the last 2/32 inch of tread legally must be replaced!
My friend who got 60k from his Mich's was using Summits, and the 60k he
quoted me was what the selling dealer had told him--but the twr was way
higher than 200--which would've been twice the 30k from the 100 twr. IIRC,
his twr was about 400. Using the relativity model, that would suggest 4
times 30k, or 120 k. And 1/2 of this 120k would be the 60k he actually
got--some miles from quality and some miles from prayers!
I used to buy a metric-design tread from Western Auto--made pretty tires
for Taurus's etc.--and IIRC their twr was about 320. We ran a set on an
~'87 model Taurus. With about 20k on the tires, we sold it to a local
company. Seems like they asked me to get them a new set of tires when they
had put about another 10k on them, for a total of 30k miles. This rates
about 96k based on the 100 giving 30k, and works out to be a factor of about
1/3 actual miles as based on the 96k theoretical miles. These were cheap
tires, and may have had a much-inflated rating like the "Energy Men" ratings
I mentioned earlier.
Then one exception I must toss in: a friend who bought a new Explorer
and drove it on many daily 200-mile round trips, got an unbelieveable 130k
on a set of Firestones. He then traded it to the local Toyota store, which
cleaned it up and put it on their budget lot--with the same tires, just
polished to give them a glossy appearance.
My final analysis from all this bs is that one would at least have to
use a different set of parameters, and percentages, as he moves from one
mfg. to another. But we can be assured of one thing: that model of 30k per
100 rating can NOT be relied upon. Even if we stick to one brand, the %'s
are going to vary as we go from one temp. rating to another and from one
traction rating to another.
Now to introduce another problem that prevents our getting as many
miles...those damnable flat spots that occur and create such roar and
bumping, even with 2/3 the original tread depth still remaining. Can we
legally claim 2x their original cost?...or 3x the orig. cost?...as a
charitable income tax deduction? I cried every time I had to "donate" so
many over the years that I'd think it reasonable to claim some % of their
original cost to pain and suffering!!!
This whole theme seems to just defy all scientific criteria. Unless we
defer it to "social science"!!! All my 2 cents' worth, and often worth
every dime. sam
Lee Richardson
2007-08-26 14:21:25 UTC
Permalink
Just a data point.

1999 4dr Olds Alero 3400 V6, purchased new. Factory original BF Goodrich
Touring T/As.

P215/60 R15
TPC Spec 1139 M/S
Treadware 380
Traction A
Temperature B

This car has 107,500 miles on it and while obviously worn, none of the tires
are down to the tread wear indicators in any groove. Tires are wearing
extremely evenly, have been rotated maybe 3 times in the life of the car,
although the fronts of course wear quicker than the rears on this front
wheel drive car. Rain and dry traction still excellent, even in resistance
to hydroplaning in standing rain water. Wheels seem to be exceptionally
well aligned, although it has never had a wheel alignment and was in one
moderate collision to the right front corner. This car rolls very easily,
when you lift at 45 mph it slows -very- gradually.



Location is Evansville, Indiana, miles have been about 75% city, 25%
highway. About 99 percent paved roads, but roughness, pot holes, rough
train tracks, etc. are not unusual.

Lee Richardson
Mech-Tech
sdlomi2
2007-08-27 02:23:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Richardson
Just a data point.
1999 4dr Olds Alero 3400 V6, purchased new. Factory original BF Goodrich
Touring T/As.
P215/60 R15
TPC Spec 1139 M/S
Treadware 380
Traction A
Temperature B
This car has 107,500 miles on it and while obviously worn, none of the
tires are down to the tread wear indicators in any groove. Tires are
wearing extremely evenly, have been rotated maybe 3 times in the life of
the car, although the fronts of course wear quicker than the rears on this
front wheel drive car. Rain and dry traction still excellent, even in
resistance to hydroplaning in standing rain water. Wheels seem to be
exceptionally well aligned, although it has never had a wheel alignment
and was in one moderate collision to the right front corner. This car
rolls very easily, when you lift at 45 mph it slows -very- gradually.
Location is Evansville, Indiana, miles have been about 75% city, 25%
highway. About 99 percent paved roads, but roughness, pot holes, rough
train tracks, etc. are not unusual.
Lee Richardson
Mech-Tech
Lee, sounds like a car that one of us should hang on to! You are
probably also a careful driver who does not punish a car during takeoff or
the brakes during stopping. Keep it up! BTW: How do you like that 3400?
s
Lee Richardson
2007-08-27 11:20:08 UTC
Permalink
True, I drive like an old man, because at over 50, I guess I am one.<g>
Also in an attempt to keep fuel costs down. But it has had several full
throttle blasts throuhout it's life. The engine is great, except mine has
the leaking intake gasket. It was replaced once under warranty, and it has
been leaking again for the past 20,000 miles. Not a lot, but just enough to
let me know it is leaking. I have used a total of 2 gallons of 50/50
Dexcool since the second leak began.

Lee Richardson
Post by sdlomi2
Lee, sounds like a car that one of us should hang on to! You are
probably also a careful driver who does not punish a car during takeoff or
the brakes during stopping. Keep it up! BTW: How do you like that 3400?
s
Jim Yanik
2007-08-26 02:00:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
Post by Jim Yanik
I suspect the wide variation in the abrasiveness of actual road
paving could make a significant difference in tread wear
Hi Jim Yanik,
Yes. That is the whole point. There is a scientific method (which is
the 100 = 30,000 miles extrapolated from 7,200 miles of test driving)
... and there is the practical method.
I'm beginning to understand that this isn't the newsgroup for anyone
who actually understands tires based on the responses I received so
far. That's ok. It's my bad for going to the wrong group to ask a
basic question regarding how long tires last and what their treadwear
numbers were.
But, if this is the wrong group for automotive tire questions, ... may
I ask ...
Which newsgroup best understands automobile tires in ordinary use?
What I was trying to say is that there are so many variables that affect
tire wear,that the UTQG is a poor guideline;
auto mechanicals,tire pressures,road conditions,and driving styles.
You can't simulate all that in a lab.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
Ivan Jager
2007-08-29 22:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
Post by Jim Yanik
I suspect the wide variation in the abrasiveness of actual road paving
could make a significant difference in tread wear
Hi Jim Yanik,
Yes. That is the whole point. There is a scientific method (which is the
100 = 30,000 miles extrapolated from 7,200 miles of test driving) ... and
there is the practical method.
You appear to have a terrible misconception of the scientific method.
People have given you good answers. I don't know why you choose to
ignore them. Nothing other than BS has come up saying that 100 = 30k
miles.

If you actually use the scientific method to find out how long a tire
will last under certain conditions, you need to subject a tire to those
conditions until it wears out. Then you get to repeat the experiment
again and again. If the results are pretty consistent, then you *might*
have the right answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

But guess what? Even if they did test the tires until they wore out,
there are still all kinds of variables that are different in your case.
You are driving in CA, not TX. Your car is likely not the same model.
The weather is not the same, etc, etc...
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
I'm beginning to understand that this isn't the newsgroup for anyone who
actually understands tires based on the responses I received so far. That's
ok. It's my bad for going to the wrong group to ask a basic question
regarding how long tires last and what their treadwear numbers were.
Which of the newsgroups you cross posted to are you talking about?
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
But, if this is the wrong group for automotive tire questions, ... may I
ask ...
Which newsgroup best understands automobile tires in ordinary use?
Yes.

Ivan
r***@mail.com
2007-08-26 04:43:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
How many miles will a typical car actually get on a tire rated 500?
I googled for the Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG) Standards and found
articles which describe how the government runs the Texas test to determine
the tire treadwear rating based on the first 7200 miles
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=48
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/TireWheel/utqg.htm
Basically, 100 = 30,000 miles so 500 = 150,000 miles of tread life based on
extrapolation of the first 7,200 miles of wear in San Angelo, Texas.
What I don't get is why I don't get anywhere near 150,000 miles out of a
single set of properly inflated, balanced, and rotated tires in a car
properly aligned, accelerated, and braked.
So, my question is how many miles do we/you REALLY get for every 100 points
in a UTQG rating? In real life. Really.
The test tire rated 100 is or was a bias ply, and my Goodyear Polyglas
bias ply tires lasted almost 20,000 miles.

Michelin 140: < 40,000 miles
Goodyear 140: < 40,000 miles
Dunlop 220: > 50,000 miles (tires replace due to age, not defects or
tread)
Cooper 560: 35,000 miles
Discount Tire 300: 45,000 miles
Michelin 740: 88,000 miles (still in use, 3/32" tread remaining)
C. E. White
2007-08-31 15:01:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Pnina Gersten_
What I don't get is why I don't get anywhere near 150,000 miles out of a
single set of properly inflated, balanced, and rotated tires in a car
properly aligned, accelerated, and braked.
So, my question is how many miles do we/you REALLY get for every 100 points
in a UTQG rating? In real life. Really.
I'll bet if you drove all 150,000 miles in a conservative manner on
the same test track you get close to the rated mileage. But the real
world is not a test track. There used to be a study that compared tire
wear state by state. My home state, NC, was rated near the bottom,
mostly because so many secondary roads are recoated with a rock and
tar mixture. This leaves a lot of sharp edges exposed that really wear
out tires. My ex-wife used to shred tires at an incredible rate. She
never, I repeat never, drove on a major highway. If she needed to get
from point a to point b on the other side of town, she would wind
through all the obscure highly cambered, twisty surface streets she
could find. Tires that would last me 50,000 miles would not last her
20,000 miles. Your driving style also affects tire wear. Lots of quick
starts, heavy breaking, and high speed cornering will wear out tires
much more rapidly than conservative driving. My Sister had a 1980
Honda Accord. She actually had the car shipped to Europe when she
worked their for 2 years. When she was back in the states the car was
totaled in an accident. It had around 80,000 miles on the odometer.
There were rust holes in the body, the car rattled and whistled like a
banshee, the muffler had holes you could stick your hand through, but
the tires were original and still had enough tread to pass inspection.
My Sister just doesn't wear out tires. I think she is averaging over
60k on the cheapest tires she can buy for her current Honda Civic. The
type of car also has an effect. I had a 1978 Ford Fiesta. It came with
12" Michelin tires. I read a recommendation that you should never
rotate the tries for this car, rather just replace the front ones when
they wore out. This is what I did for the first 8 years. Finally when
the car had 130,000 miles on the original rear tires, I moved them to
the front so I could wear them out before they dry rotted. The fronts
were only good for about 40,000 miles per set (Michelins). I think if
dry rot wasn't a problem, the rears would have out lasted the rest of
the car.

Ed
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